10 comments

  • TrackerFF 2 minutes ago
    Wonder when these folks retired.

    Kind of blows my mind that there are people out there that have lived longer in retirement, than they have worked.

  • euroclear 2 hours ago
    Related, perhaps?

    The secret to living to 110? Bad record-keeping, says Ig Nobel Prize winner.

    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2024/12/25/lifestyle/lifes...

    • siva7 45 minutes ago
      This is about those aged over 100, not 110 which is a completely different ballpark... Besides that, all my relatives lived close to 100 and they certainly hadn't a healthy lifestyle nor are they japanese nor had they access to the current medical breakthroughs. I assume the secret is mostly genetics and it is easy for me to see how 100k are aged over 100 in Japan.
    • em500 2 hours ago
      The linked BBC article devotes the last quarter of text to this. Don't assume they're taking all statistics at face value.
    • 3eb7988a1663 44 minutes ago
      A link to the paper on biorxiv[0], Supercentenarian and remarkable age records exhibit patterns indicative of clerical errors and pension fraud. A bit of the abstract:

        In the United States, supercentenarian status is predicted by the absence of vital registration. The state-specific introduction of birth certificates is associated with a 69-82% fall in the number of supercentenarian records. In Italy, England, and France, which have more uniform vital registration, remarkable longevity is instead predicted by poverty, low per capita incomes, shorter life expectancy, higher crime rates, worse health, higher deprivation, fewer 90+ year olds, and residence in remote, overseas, and colonial territories. In England and France, higher old-age poverty rates alone predict more than half of the regional variation in attaining a remarkable age. Only 18% of ‘exhaustively’ validated supercentenarians have a birth certificate, falling to zero percent in the USA, and supercentenarian birthdates are concentrated on days divisible by five: a pattern indicative of widespread fraud and error. Finally, the designated ‘blue zones’ of Sardinia, Okinawa, and Ikaria corresponded to regions with low incomes, low literacy, high crime rate and short life expectancy relative to their national average. As such, relative poverty and short lifespan constitute unexpected predictors of centenarian and supercentenarian status and support a primary role of fraud and error in generating remarkable human age records.
      
      I also found an interview with the author [1], which had some choice quotes, one that popped out to me,

        For example, Costa Rica, 42% of the centenarians in Costa Rica turned out to be lying about their age after the study was conducted. And once you corrected those errors, they went from world leading to, quote, near the bottom of the pack, in terms of late life expectancy. And so the question I have for those researchers is how do you explain that, for example, 82% of Japanese centenarians were missing or dead in your sample? And this wasn't discovered by demographers. This was discovered by the government of Japan. 
      
      [0] http://dx.doi.org/10.1101/704080

      [1] https://www.mprnews.org/episode/2024/09/25/the-secret-to-a-l...

    • delichon 2 hours ago
      Then I may be immortal.
      • ainiriand 56 minutes ago
        You are just a rounding error.
    • dadrian 2 hours ago
      Yeah, I assume this means there’s a lot of fraud
      • walthamstow 1 hour ago
        Probably but stats aside there certainly are a lot of very old people in Japan living near-normal lives compared to other developed countries.

        After an hour in any town and I'd seen more 95+yos walking about than 10 years in Britain. And the number of times I saw 4 generations of men from one family in the bathhouse!

      • ekianjo 2 hours ago
        When there's money to be made from dead relatives, and an incentive for governments to make it look like people live beyond 100 so that they can claim superiority, yeah, that's a good recipe for massive fraud.
    • MichaelRo 1 hour ago
      After reading a couple of articles on fraud or just sloppy record keeping almost always behind centenarians, now I'm extremely skeptical on claims of people having past 100 years of age.

      While there are a few people who seemed to be nearly immortal, as in "being around since forever", like the Queen Of England or recently deceased https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Iliescu ... they didn't actually push past 100.

      With all the care and life standard, seems to be a hard limit in our genes, so until something is done about that, better get realistic expectations.

      • reactordev 1 hour ago
        My grandfather made it to 98, but holy cow he was frail. The last few years of his life he couldn’t move much. Shuffle walked only a few inches. Drooled on every meal in front of him. I loved my grandfather but watching him in that state, we were all relieved for him when he passed.

        He smoked only during WW2, was an army corp of engineers colonel when he retired from the military, came from a dirt farm in Michigan, engineered all kinds of civil and military projects. In the end, he still managed to engineer a smile. He absolutely loved maps/atlases/GIS.

        • mahkeiro 1 hour ago
          My wife grandmother made it to 102 and when she died (from an infection)it was a surprise as she was still very active and was walking everyday. Genetics and luck play also a big role.
      • Aurornis 55 minutes ago
        > I'm extremely skeptical on claims of people having past 100 years of age.

        People do live past 100.

        Look at a chart of how old people are when they die and you’ll see a consistent distribution with a downward curve. There really are people in the tail of that curve.

        There is no hard cutoff in the body that can precisely track time passed over 36,500 days and then shut it all down.

  • senko 4 minutes ago
    [delayed]
  • sleigh-bells 2 hours ago
    I wonder why nearly all the focus in the US on healthy diets is on the Mediterranean diet and not the Japanese one...

    (Greece commits a lot of pension fraud too)

    • dfxm12 29 minutes ago
      More (many more?) of us are familiar with and have familial connections with the Mediterranean. We also have easier access to, say, olive oil than pickled plums.

      Remember, the goal of marketing a diet is selling books. Books telling you to find, prepare and eat seaweed is a harder sell than books telling you to eat ingredients you're probably already cooking with (but maybe in different quantities) and use tools and techniques you're already familiar with.

    • onlyrealcuzzo 1 hour ago
      Probably the same reason why people focus so much on diet, and so little on lifestyle.
      • throwaway2037 3 minutes ago
        What do you mean by "lifestyle" here?
      • buzzerbetrayed 1 hour ago
        I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at, but if you’re referring to weight, diet is significantly more important than lifestyle.

        In other words, it’s way easier to out diet a bad lifestyle than out lifestyle a bad diet, if your goal is to not be overweight. Obviously that doesn’t apply to all health metrics.

        • Aurornis 40 minutes ago
          > In other words, it’s way easier to out diet a bad lifestyle than out lifestyle a bad diet,

          Depends on the person. If someone is eating such a large caloric excess and consuming highly processed calorie dense foods, changing diet is the only way out. You’re not going to out-exercise a 1000 calorie excess every day.

          The average person might only be eating 200-300 calories more than their grandparents did, though. That’s actually within the range where you could overcome it with daily activity.

          Really though, this isn’t a situation where you should pick or choose. Most people should be improving their diets and getting a little more activity.

        • onlyrealcuzzo 34 minutes ago
          > In other words, it’s way easier to out diet a bad lifestyle than out lifestyle a bad diet.

          It's almost as if both are important, but people tend to over simply and focus and be reductive and think if they just eat enough goji berries, they'll live forever.

        • water-data-dude 1 hour ago
          I think they're saying that diet is easier for people to commit to than going to the gym regularly and other lifestyle changes.
          • bobthepanda 1 hour ago
            Going to the gym regularly is a strictly American thing. Americans are obsessed with gym culture in a way that other countries generally aren't.

            Most exercise in Japan takes the form of constant walking. You can walk from most homes to stores and restaurants, from many homes to train stations, from many workplaces to train stations, etc. For many Americans, the most walking they do is the walk from the door to the car.

            It's substantially easier to build up a lot of time exercising by just walking as part of the things you do in daily life; a dedicated workout is generally only about 45-90 minutes. And the people going to the gym in Japan are also participating in all that walking, generally.

            • ivape 1 hour ago
              It’s because America is built on insecurity. You never know if you’re rich enough, smart enough, skinny enough, pretty enough …

              I wonder what anyone in Japan can say of the state of vanity over there. Is it relegated to an age ranges or genders, or is it beginning to pollute the culture entirely like in America?

              My opinion is that Japan’s primary sin is pride and not necessarily vanity.

          • appreciatorBus 1 hour ago
            Or: diet is eaiser to commit to than going to the gym and going to the gym is easier than convincing your neighbours & city council to allow any sort of change to American style land use patterns that prevent destinations being within walkabout distances and destroy the profitability of transit.
        • mensetmanusman 47 minutes ago
          It’s not, my mom moved in and I brought her on short daily walks. She lost 70 pounds in one year.
        • idiotsecant 53 minutes ago
          While diet is obviously essential to a long life, it is not sufficient. There is a mountain of evidence that regular cardiovascular exercise is a pretty essential part of keeping your body working, as well as your mind.
    • odiroot 1 hour ago
      Because it's not about diet, at least not mostly. It's about societal pressure. There's plenty of unhealthy easily accessible food even in Japan.
    • kjkjadksj 9 minutes ago
      I thought this was established that the med diet had no effect and was merely correlated with genetics in blue zones?
    • ninetyninenine 2 hours ago
      If you been to Japan, access to unhealthy food is extraordinarily easy. There’s so much bad food everywhere along with good food.

      So in short food itself from Japan is not generically healthy… it’s the choices that Japanese people make within this environment that are healthy.

      • wanderer_79 1 hour ago
        As a Japanese, I will also mention that what you see out to eat in Japan is not exactly what we eat at home traditionally. I doubt many would know about all the multitude of traditional dishes that my mom regularly made at home that one would typically not go out to eat, such as hijiki salad (ひじきの煮物) or kinpira gobo (きんぴらごぼう). These and others are the types of dishes that remind me of home (and not tamago-sandos and ramen). My mom emphasized eating things of different colors, which came in the form of assortments of various types of vegetables.

        Also, portion sizes in America are huge.

        • evidencetamper 58 minutes ago
          This, plus yearly mandated healthchecks with huge pressure and shame on excessive weight.
      • Tiktaalik 15 minutes ago
        North America is a car captured hellscape where so many people have zero options but to sit in a car to get everywhere they want to go.

        Meanwhile in Japan and so many other regions in Europe that are pointed to as healthier people have the option to simply walk to do so many of their daily tasks.

        No real surprise that the regions where people have to actively work harder to be active are in poorer health than others where being active is the default easiest choice.

        The built environment is a critical thing here we can fix to make a healthier society.

      • Aurornis 1 hour ago
        > it’s the choices that Japanese people make within this environment that are healthy

        This is a difficult truth for a lot of people to accept because it’s so much easier to blame invisible factors that are poorly understood: Microplastics, xenoesteogens, microbiome, trace lithium in the water supply, or the other trendy excuses.

        In some cultures moderating your eating and controlling your weight comes with very high societal pressure. Everyone sees this from a young age and internalizes it. It’s hard to communicate how strong this pressure is and it gets lost when you only look at studies about the food supply.

        • eagerpace 45 minutes ago
          Agree. Hyper-partisanship has Americans on both sides believing any decision they don’t make for themselves is against their interests.
      • zdw 1 hour ago
        I think this is mostly a social/societal thing - at an early age in schools they tell kids that they should only eat until they're 80% full. And there's substantial social pressure and bullying of anyone considered even mildly overweight.

        Also, most people have a lot of walking/biking built into their daily schedule, especially in larger cities where having a car is impractical.

        This all means that while there is a huge amount of sweets and fatty food, it's usually eaten in moderation, and people get exercise in their daily lives to work it off.

      • damontal 18 minutes ago
        They have vending machines with hot pizza! I’d be in big trouble there.
      • adrianN 1 hour ago
        The Mediterranean diet is pretty much nothing like people in the Mediterranean eat today either. Very old people had a radically different diet during most of their life.
      • Barrin92 15 minutes ago
        >it’s the choices that Japanese people make within this environment that are healthy.

        Precisely that they don't need to make choices due to their environment is what makes the difference. In the US and EU people love their individualism, spend a gazillion on fitness interventions and most people are overweight, it's probably the most visible sign of the importance of culture. As Russ Ackoff said, the correct way to address problems is not to solve them, but to dissolve them. Not to fix individual issues but to create conditions under which they do not occur.

        The best way to lose weight is actually to move to a place that's full of thin people, not "do" anything. It's funny that the reverse is common wisdom, everyone who moves to an unhealthy place will always proclaim how they gained 20 pounds immediately

      • tetris11 2 hours ago
        Isn't it just affordable access to high quality healthcare services?
        • Aurornis 1 hour ago
          Unlikely that health care drives the population’s daily food choices and caloric intake.
    • bee_rider 1 hour ago
      Everybody loves the Mediterranean, right? It has just the right mix of “down to Earth,” and sophistication.
      • epolanski 54 minutes ago
        Where's the sophistication? It's mostly vegetables.
        • alkyon 8 minutes ago
          It´s like saying that the Japanse diet is mostly about rice and ramen.

          I find a lot of sophistication in Italian cooking, especially accompanied by a good wine. The problem is that in the US Italian food is mostly some fastfood abomination that is not really what is eaten in Italy.

    • PUSH_AX 2 hours ago
      Are we to believe only one or the other contains the key or is very healthy?
    • gedy 1 hour ago
      Mainly because most Americans don't want to eat a (real) asian diet, unlike Mediterranean style food.
      • tayo42 1 hour ago
        What would that diet consist of?
        • datameta 44 minutes ago
          Mostly vegetables, sizable amount of seafood, and rice (if we speak of coastal east asia generically)
          • sotix 13 minutes ago
            That sounds like my Greek diet!
  • jonathan920 1 hour ago
    I actually lived in Japan for 2+ mths , ate like how I ate more than what I ate in Singapore , literally lost 5kg. I was remote working there but do travel out and walk during weekends.

    I actually miss the dirty oil fried food from Singapore , it’s much nicer when it’s greasy. Japan cooking oil is very clean , food quality is much higher too, less processed.

    • okdood64 4 minutes ago
      I gained weight during my last 2 weeks in Japan. Was eating 4 meals (although relatively light) a day.
    • Aurornis 1 hour ago
      > but do travel out and walk during weekends.

      Traveling somewhere where you walk more and then losing weight is such a common story that it has become a meme.

      People also don’t accurately judge how much they eat. The portion sizes were likely smaller and the food composition was different than what you ate in Singapore, even if you thought you were eating the same. A lot has been written arguing about hidden factors in food, but in actual studies it always comes down to eating fewer calories. Eating less calorie dense foods and smaller portion sizes will do it. Even the GLP-1 studies revealed that the magic of their weight loss is directly proportional to reduction of calories eaten, even if patients eat exactly the same foods (but in smaller quantities or less frequently)

    • rtz121 54 minutes ago
      On my last Japan vacation I actually managed to gain weight
  • famahar 1 hour ago
    Anecdotal, but living in Japan now and I do eat much healthier and walk way more than I ever did. Sometimes it's just for fun since the city I live in is walkable, but also my commute to work involves at least an hour of walking to and from stations which I have gotten used to.

    As others have mentioned, social pressure plays a role in fitness, but there definitely is an abundance of unhealthy food. A previous generation may have had less unhealthy food options, so I'd be interested to see if this trend continues. All the greasy fast food chains exist here too and they are always packed.

  • zac23or 28 minutes ago
    I read such news with a grain of salt:

    However, when officials went to congratulate him on his 111th birthday, they found his 30-year-old remains, raising concerns that the welfare system is being exploited by dishonest relatives.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11258071 (2010)

  • anikom15 2 hours ago
    That’s wonderful. I hope I can live so long.
    • fhdkweig 2 hours ago
      Only if I can stay in good health. I don't want to be like my grandmother who got a stroke and spent the last 10 years of her life laying in bed.
  • aetherson 2 hours ago
    "Japan sets record of nearly 100k people whose children are committing pension fraud."
    • julianozen 2 hours ago
      Possible, but also Japan is such a high trust society I would be shocked if this is the reason
      • danans 2 hours ago
        > Japan is such a high trust society I would be shocked if this is the reason

        Trust works both ways. There's also the trust that nobody will report anyone for the fraud, especially if it is widespread and normalized.

        However, it would not surprise me if Japan actually did have high life expectancy rates because several other statistics seem to correlate with that, including low obesity, and universal access to healthcare.

      • hajile 54 minutes ago
        I don't remember the source, but worldwide, most really old people have a couple things in common. First is that they live in countries with some kind of pension plan. Second, they generally come from poor neighborhoods where all the people around them statistically have lower lifespans.

        The logical conclusion is fraud.

      • sfdlkj3jk342a 1 hour ago
        I don't think defrauding the government is all that related to what is typically meant by high/low trust societies.

        It was already seen over a decade ago: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11258071

      • aetherson 2 hours ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sogen_Kato#Aftermath

        I mean, clearly not all centarians in Japan are actually dead. But I think it's fairly straightforward that the numbers of super-elderly are inflated.

      • hshshshshsh 2 hours ago
        Dude. All humans poop.
        • Glide 1 hour ago
          But not in the streets.
      • middleclick 2 hours ago
        If Japan is such a high trust society, why do they have separate train compartments for women?
    • paulpauper 24 minutes ago
      nah, we can use the US as a benchmark for the expected rate of >100yr old people . It's not all fraud.
  • ekianjo 2 hours ago
    [flagged]