8 comments

  • mlissner 1 hour ago
    Cool to see this here. It’s funny because we do so many huge, complex, multiyear projects at Free Law Project, but this is the most viral any of our work has ever gone!

    Anyway, I made X-ray to analyze the millions of documents we have in CourtListener so that we can try to educate people about the issue.

    The analysis was fun. We used S3 batch jobs, but we haven’t done the hard part of looking at the results and reporting them out. One day.

    • thangalin 15 minutes ago
      https://www.argeliuslabs.com/deep-research-on-pdf-redaction-...

      > Information Leaking from Redaction Marks: Even when content is properly removed, the redaction marks themselves can leak some information if not done carefully. For example, if you have a black box exactly covering a word, the length of that black box gives a clue to the word’s length (and potentially its identity).

      Does X-ray employ glyph spacing attacks and try to exploit font metric leaks?

  • jmward01 10 minutes ago
    Hmmm.. The more I think about this the more any font kerning is likely a major leak for redaction. Even if the boxes have randomness applied to them, the words around a blacked out area have exact positioning that constrains the text within so that only certain letter/space combinations could fit between them. With a little knowledge of the rendering algorithm and some educated guessing about the text a bruit force search may be able to do a very credible job of discovering the actual text. This isn't my field. Anyone out there that has actually worked on this problem?
  • embedding-shape 31 minutes ago
    I haven't gone through more than just 10% of the files released today, but noticed that at least EFTA00037069.pdf for example has a `/Prev` pointer, meaning the previous revision of the file is available inside of the PDF itself. In this case, the difference is minor, but I'm guessing if it's in one file, it could be more. You can run `qpdf --show-object=trailer EFTA00037069.pdf` on a PDF file to see for yourself if it's there.

    I'm almost fully convinced that someone did this bad intentionally, together with the bad redactions, as surely people tasked with redacting a bunch of files receive some instructions on what to do/not to do?

  • brotchie 53 minutes ago
    You'd think the go-to workflow for releasing redacted PDFs would be to draw black rectangles and then rasterize to image-only PDFs :shrug:
    • selinkocalar 15 minutes ago
      As someone who's built an entire business on "anti-screenshots" this is brilliant.

      PDF redaction fails are everywhere and it's usually because people don't understand that covering text with a black box doesn't actually remove the underlying data.

      I see this constantly in compliance. People think they're protecting sensitive info but the original text is still there in the PDF structure.

    • shbooms 35 minutes ago
      often times you will have requirements that the documents you release be digitally searchable and so in these cases, this would not be an option
      • 8note 17 minutes ago
        run some ocr on them after to recreate the text layer?
  • unfocused 1 hour ago
    Adobe Pro, when used properly, will redact anything in a PDF permanently.

    Whoever did these "bad" redactions doesn't even know how to use a PDF Editor.

    We have paralegals and lawyers "mark for redaction", then review the documents, then "apply redactions". It's literally be done by thousands of lawyers/paralegals for decades. This is just someone not following the process and procedure, and making mistakes. It's actually quite amateurish. You should never, ever screw up redactions if you follow the proper process. Good on the X-ray project on trying to find errors.

    I just want to add, applying black highlights on top of text is in fact, the "old" way of redaction, as it was common to do this, and then simply print the paper with the black bars, and send the paper as the final product.

    Whoever did it is probably old, and may have done it thinking they were going to print it on paper afterwards!! Just guessing as to why someone would do this.

    • tgsovlerkhgsel 1 hour ago
      Or they may not understand how PDF works and think that it's the same as paper.

      Especially with the "draw a black box over it" method, the text also stops being trivially mouse-selectable (even if CTRL+A might still work).

      Another possibility is, of course, that whoever was responsible for this knew exactly what they were doing, but this way they can claim a honest mistake rather than intentionally leaking the data.

      • aidos 57 minutes ago
        A while back I did a little work with a company that were meant to help us improve our security posture. I terminated the contract after they sent me documents in which they’d redacted their own AWS keys using this method.
      • zahlman 1 hour ago
        > Or they may not understand how PDF works and think that it's the same as paper.

        Yes; that's presumably included in being "amateurish" and "not following proper process".

  • seanw444 2 hours ago
    The context for OP posting this is that many of the recently-released Epstein documents were PDFs "redacted" by being drawn on top of.
    • agumonkey 1 hour ago
      I wasn't sure of this, even though sometimes you'd see remains of the original characters near rectangles edges.. does this mean the leaked documents have been de-redacted ?
      • k1t 1 hour ago
        • agumonkey 1 hour ago
          oh that's a beautiful sight

          hopefully this is straw that breaks the camel's back

          • XorNot 1 hour ago
            Why would that be the case? The government isn't redacting "yes we contacted aliens" they're redacting information about military capabilities that might be of use to adversaries.
            • agumonkey 58 minutes ago
              sorry the title mentioned epstein files, so i was hoping incriminating facts that would accelerate trump's fall
              • jibal 47 minutes ago
                No reason to be sorry ... you are right and the other person seems quite confused about the context.
      • kstrauser 1 hour ago
        • agumonkey 1 hour ago
          yeah i expected every political team, even the low level ones, to be fully aware of naive pdf "edition"... alas, incompetence often does that
          • arthurcolle 1 hour ago
            Checks and balances for a more technological era.
          • zahlman 1 hour ago
            I'm actually surprised not to have yet heard widespread conspiracy theorization that this is deliberate for some inscrutable reason or other.
            • kstrauser 1 hour ago
              Something something "chess, not checkers, this proves he has them on the run!"
    • arthurcolle 1 hour ago
      Also good for UFO/UAP/"anomalous phenomena" documents and remote viewing PDFs for what it's worth :)
    • formerly_proven 1 hour ago
      Is there a good free tool to properly redact PDFs? My workflow is to place black annotation rectangles on top and then print as PDF with "force rasterization" on. The resulting PDF files then just consist of pages with one image each. But this tends to be really suboptimal, because it's usually a grayscale or color rasterization, so file sizes are very large vs. monochrome PDFs with CCITT G3/G4 compression (which is absolutely what you want for text content, excellent compression and lossless). Post-processing PDFs to convert them to CCITT is rather annoying and I only know of CLI ways.
  • gigatexal 58 minutes ago
    Hilarious that DOJ didn’t flatten the layers so you can unredact stuff. What a clown show of incompetent idiots. Or… a skillful one over on the powers that be internally from someone who knew better but knew that they wouldn’t know … and did this to help us all
  • IceHegel 2 hours ago
    Given recent high profile redaction events, I think one simple use of AI would be to have it redact documents according to an objective standard.

    That should in theory prevent overly redacted documents for political purposes.

    An approach that could be rolled out today would be redacting with human review, but showing what % of redactions the AI would have done, and also showing the prompt given to the AI to perform redactions.

    • mmazing 1 hour ago
      Honestly, it doesn't take any inference or need for AI, there's simply data in the documents that can be extracted.
      • bogtog 1 hour ago
        I don't think the commentor above is saying that an AI should necessarily apply the redaction. Rather, an AI can serve as an objective-ish way of determining what should be redacted. This seems somewhat analogous to how (non-AI) models can we used to evaluate how gerrymandered a map is