Daniel, your work is changing the world. More power to you.
I setup a pipeline for inference with OCR, full text search, embedding and summarization of land records dating back 1800s. All powered by the GGUF's you generate and llama.cpp. People are so excited that they can now search the records in multiple languages that a 1 minute wait to process the document seems nothing. Thank you!
FYI, screenshot for the "Search and download Gemma 4" step on your guide is for qwen3.5, and when I searched for gemma-4 in Unsloth Studio it only shows Gemma 3 models.
You have an answer on your page regarding "Should I pick 26B-A4B or 31B?", but can you please clarify if, assuming 24GB vRAM, I should pick a full precision smaller model or 4 bit larger model?
Daniel, I know you might hear this a lot but I really appreciate a lot of what you have been doing at Unsloth and the way you handle your communication, whether within hackernews/reddit.
I am not sure if someone might have asked this already to you, but I have a question (out of curiosity) as to which open source model you find best and also, which AI training team (Qwen/Gemini/Kimi/GLM) has cooperated the most with the Unsloth team and is friendly to work with from such perspective?
Now you have gotten me a bit excited for Gemma-4, Definitely gonna see if I can run the unsloth quants of this on my mac air & thanks for responding to my comment :-)
(Comparing Q3.5-27B to G4 26B A4B and G4 31B specifically)
I'd assume Q3.5-35B-A3B would performe worse than the Q3.5 deep 27B model, but the cards you pasted above, somehow show that for ELO and TAU2 it's the other way around...
Very impressed by unsloth's team releasing the GGUF so quickly, if that's like the qwen 3.5, I'll wait a few more days in case they make a major update.
Overall great news if it's at parity or slightly better than Qwen 3.5 open weights, hope to see both of these evolve in the sub-32GB-RAM space. Disappointed in Mistral/Ministral being so far behind these US & Chinese models
> Very impressed by unsloth's team releasing the GGUF so quickly, if that's like the qwen 3.5, I'll wait a few more days in case they make a major update.
Same here. I can't wait until mlx-community releases MLX optimized versions of these models as well, but happily running the GGUFs in the meantime!
I ran these in LM Studio and got unrecognizable pelicans out of the 2B and 4B models and an outstanding pelican out of the 26b-a4b model - I think the best I've seen from a model that runs on my laptop.
Featuring the ELO score as the main benchmark in chart is very misleading. The big dense Gemma 4 model does not seem to reach Qwen 3.5 27B dense model in most benchmarks. This is obviously what matters. The small 2B / 4B models are interesting and may potentially be better ASR models than specialized ones (not just for performances but since they are going to be easily served via llama.cpp / MLX and front-ends). Also interesting for "fast" OCR, given they are vision models as well. But other than that, the release is a bit disappointing.
Public benchmarks can be trivially faked. Lmarena is a bit harder to fake and is human-evaluated.
I agree it's misleading for them to hyper-focus on one metric, but public benchmarks are far from the only thing that matters. I place more weight on Lmarena scores and private benchmarks.
Lm arena is so easy to game that it's ceased to be a relevant metric over a year ago. People are not usable validators beyond "yeah that looks good to me", nobody checks if the facts are correct or not.
I agree; LMArena died for me with the Llama 4 debacle. And not only the gamed scores, but seeing with shock and horror the answers people found good. It does test something though: the general "vibe" and how human/friendly and knowledgeable it _seems_ to be.
It's easy to game and human evaluation data has its trade-offs, but it's way easier to fake public benchmark results. I wish we had a source of high quality private benchmark results across a vast number of models like Lmarena. Having high quality human evaluation data would be a plus too.
Well there was this one [0] which is a black box but hasn't really been kept up to date with newer releases. Arguably we'd need lots of these since each one could be biased towards some use case or sell its test set to someone with more VC money than sense.
I find the benchmarks to be suggestive but not necessarily representative of reality. It's really best if you have your own use case and can benchmark the models yourself. I've found the results to be surprising and not what these public benchmarks would have you believe.
I can't find what ELO score specifically the benchmark chart is referring to, it's just labeled "Elo Score". It's not Codeforces ELO as that Gemma 4 31B has 2150 for that which would be off the given chart.
It's referring to the Lmsys Leaderboard/Lmarena/Arena.ai[0]. It's very well-known in the LLM community for being one of the few sources of human evaluation data.
Hi all!
I work on the Gemma team, one of many as this one was a bigger effort given it was a mainline release. Happy to answer whatever questions I can
What was the main focus when training this model? Besides the ELO score, it's looking like the models (31B / 26B-A4) are underperforming on some of the typical benchmarks by a wide margin. Do you believe there's an issue with the tests or the results are misleading (such as comparative models benchmaxxing)?
Thanks for this release! Any reason why 12B variant was skipped this time? Was looking forward for a competitor to Qwen3.5 9B as it allows for a good agentic flow without taking up a whole lotta vram. I guess E4B is taking its place.
Its hard to say because Pixel comes prepacked with a lot of models, not just ones that that are text output models.
With the caveat that I'm not on the pixel team and I'm not building _all_ the models that are used on, its evident there are many models that support the Android experience, from autocomplete on keyboard to image editing.
We are always figuring out what parameter size makes sense.
The decision is always a mix between how good we can make the models from a technical aspect, with how good they need to be to make all of you super excited to use them. And its a bit of a challenge what is an ever changing ecosystem.
I'm personally curious is there a certain parameter size you're looking for?
Yea, I've been waiting a while for a model that is ~12-13GB so there is still a bit of extra headroom for all the different things running on the system that for some reason eat VRAM.
This is going to sound like a corp answer but I mean this genuinely as an individual engineer. Google is a leader in its field and that means we get to chart our own path and do what is best for research and for users.
I personally strive to build software and models provides provides the best and most usable experience for lots of people. I did this before I joined google with open source, and my writing on "old school" generative models, and I'm lucky that I get to this at Google in the current LLM era.
Do any of you use this as a replacement for Claude Code? For example, you might use it with openclaw. I have a 48 GB integrated RAM Mac Mini M4 I currently run Claude Code on, do you think I can replace it with OpenClaw and one of these models?
I dont have the metrics off hand, but I'd say try it and see if you're impressed! What matters at the end of the day is if its useful for your use cases and only you'll be able to assess that!
Best thing is that this is Apache 2.0 (edit: and they have base models available. Gemma3 was good for finetuning)
The sizes are E2B and E4B (following gemma3n arch, with focus on mobile) and 26BA4 MoE and 31B dense. The mobile ones have audio in (so I can see some local privacy focused translation apps) and the 31B seems to be strong in agentic stuff. 26BA4 stands somewhere in between, similar VRAM footprint, but much faster inference.
The wait is finally over. One or two iterations, and I’ll be happy to say that language models are more than fulfilling my most common needs when self-hosting. Thanks to the Gemma team!
Strongly agree. Gemma3:27b and Qwen3-vl:30b-a3b are among my favorite local LLMs and handle the vast majority of translation, classification, and categorization work that I throw at them.
Not OP but one example is that recent VL models are more than sufficient for analyzing your local photo albums/images for creating metadata / descriptions / captions to help better organize your library.
The easiest way to get started is probably to use something like Ollama and use the `qwen3-vl:8b` 4‑bit quantized model [1].
It's a good balance between accuracy and memory, though in my experience, it's slower than older model architectures such as Llava. Just be aware Qwen-VL tends to be a bit verbose [2], and you can’t really control that reliably with token limits - it'll just cut off abruptly. You can ask it to be more concise but it can be hit or miss.
What I often end up doing and I admit it's a bit ridiculous is letting Qwen-VL generate its full detailed output, and then passing that to a different LLM to summarize.
For me, receipt scanning and tagging documents and parts of speech in my personal notes. It's a lot of manual labour and I'd like to automate it if possible.
I use local models for auto complete in simple coding tasks, cli auto complete, formatter, grammarly replacement, translation (it/de/fr -> en), ocr, simple web research, dataset tagging, file sorting, email sorting, validating configs or creating boilerplates of well known tools and much more basically anything that I would have used the old mini models of OpenAI for.
There are so many heavy hitting cracked people like daniel from unsloth and chris lattner coming out of the woodworks for this with their own custom stuff.
How does the ecosystem work? Have things converged and standardized enough where it's "easy" (lol, with tooling) to swap out parts such as weights to fit your needs? Do you need to autogen new custom kernels to fix said things? Super cool stuff.
The benchmark comparisons to Gemma 3 27B on Hugging Face are interesting: The Gemma 4 E4B variant (https://huggingface.co/google/gemma-4-E4B-it) beats the old 27B in every benchmark at a fraction of parameters.
The E2B/E4B models also support voice input, which is rare.
From what I've read, that's already part of their training. They are scored based on each step of their reasoning and not just their solution. I don't know if it's still the case, but for the early reasoning models, the "reasoning" output was more of a GUI feature to entertain the user than an actual explanation of the steps being followed.
I'd rather see a distill on the 26B model that uses only 3.8B parameters at inference time. Seems like it will be wildly productive to use for locally-hosted stuff
Even with search grounding, it scored a 2.5/5 on a basic botanical benchmark. It would take much longer for the average human to do a similar write-up, but they would likely do better than 50% hallucination if they had access to a search engine.
Gemma 3 E4E runs very quick on my Samsung S26, so I am looking forward to trying Gemma 4! It is fantastic to have local alternatives to frontier models in an offline manner.
The timing is interesting as Apple supposedly will distill google models in the upcoming Siri update [1]. So maybe Gemma is a lower bound on what we can expect baked into iPhones.
Really looking forward to testing and benchmarking this on my spam filtering benchmark. gemma-3-27b was a really strong model, surpassed later by gpt-oss:20b (which was also much faster). qwen models always had more variance.
If you wouldn't mind chatting about your usage, my email is in my profile, and I'd love to share experiences with other HNers using self-hosted models.
This more or less reflects my experience with most local models over the last couple years (although admittedly most aren't anywhere near this bad). People keep saying they're useful and yet I can't get them to be consistently useful at all.
I had a similarly bad experience running Qwen 3.5 35b a3b directly through llama.cpp. It would massively overthink every request. Somehow in OpenCode it just worked.
I think it comes down to temperature and such (see daniel‘s post), but I haven’t messed with it enough to be sure.
On the above compared benchmarks is closer to other larger open weights models, and on par with GPT-OSS 120B, for which I also have a frame of reference.
Google might not have the best coding models (yet) but they seem to have the most intelligent and knowledgeable models of all especially Gemini 3.1 Pro is something.
One more thing about Google is that they have everything that others do not:
1. Huge data, audio, video, geospatial
2. Tons of expertise. Attention all you need was born there.
3. Libraries that they wrote.
4. Their own data centers and cloud.
4. Most of all, their own hardware TPUs that no one has.
Therefore once the bubble bursts, the only player standing tall and above all would be Google.
I recently canceled my Google One subscription because getting accurate answers out of Gemini for chat is basically impossible afaict. Whether I enable thinking makes no difference: Gemini always answers me super quickly, rarely actually looks something up, and lies to me. It has a really bad unchecked hallucination problem because it prioritizes speed over accuracy and (astonishingly, to me) is way more hesitant to run web searches than ChatGPT or Claude.
Maybe the model is good but the product is so shitty that I can't perceive its virtues while using it. I would characterize it as pretty much unusable (including as the "Google Assistant" on my phone).
It's extremely frustrating every way that I've used it but it seems like Gemini and Gemma get nothing but praise here.
Recently I had a pretty basic question about whether there was a Factorio mod for something so decided to ask it to Gemini, it hallucinated not one but two sadly non-existing mods. Even Grok is better at search.
Whenever I ask it questions about videogames (even very old ones), the odds that it will lie to me are very high. I only see LLMs get those right when they go look them up online.
The other thing that kills me about Gemini is that the voice recognition is god-awful. All of the chat interfaces I use have transcriptions that include errors (which the bot usually treats unthinkingly as what I actually said, instead of acting as if we may be using a fallible voice transcription), but Gemini's is the worst by far. I often have to start conversations over because of such badly mangled transcriptions.
The accuracy problems are the biggest and most important frustrations, but I also find Gemini insufferably chummy and condescending. It often resorts to ELI5 metaphors when describing things to me where the whole metaphor is based on some tenuous link to some small factoid it thinks it remembers about my life.
The experiences it seems people get out of Gemini today seem like a waste of a frontier lab's resources tbf. If I wanted fast but lower quality I'd go to one of the many smaller providers that aren't frontier labs because lots of them are great at speed and/or efficiency.
At the start of last year Gemma2 made the fewest mistakes when I was trying out self-hosted LLMs for language translation. And at the time it had a non open source license.
Really eager to test this version with all the extra capabilities provided.
Not sure why you're being downvoted, the other thing Google has is Google. They just have to spend the effort/resources to keep up and wait for everyone else to go bankrupt. At the end of the day I think Google will be the eventual LLM winner. I think this is why Meta isn't really in the race and just releases open weight models, the writing is on the wall. Also, probably why Apple went ahead and signed a deal with Google and not OpenAI or Anthropic.
I don't know why I am downvoted but Google has data, expertise, hardware and deep pockets. This whole LLM thing is invented at Google and machine learning ecosystem libraries come from Google. I don't know how people can be so irrational discounting Google's muscle.
Others have just borrowed data, money, hardware and they would run out of resources for sure.
My money's on whatever models qwen does release edging ahead. Probably not by much, but I reckon they'll be better coders just because that's where qwen's edge over gemma has always been. Plus after having seen this land they'll probably tack on a couple of epochs just to be sure.
> We are at least 1 year and at most 2 years until they surpass closed models for everyday tasks that can be done locally to save spending on tokens.
Until they pass what closed models today can do.
By that time, closed models will be 4 years ahead.
Google would not be giving this away if they believed local open models could win.
Google is doing this to slow down Anthropic, OpenAI, and the Chinese, knowing that in the fullness of time they can be the leader. They'll stop being so generous once the dust settles.
I think it will be less of a local versus cloud situation, but rather one where both complement each other. The next step will undoubtedly be for local LLMs to be fast and intelligent enough to allow for vocal conversation. A low-latency model will then run locally, enabling smoother conversations, while batch jobs in the cloud handle the more complex tasks.
Google, at least, is likely interested in such a scenario, given their broad smartphone market. And if their local Gemma/Gemini-nano LLMs perform better with Gemini in the cloud, that would naturally be a significant advantage.
I mean, correct, but running open models locally will still massively drop your costs even if you still need to interface with large paid for models. Google will still make less money than if they were the only model that existed at the end of the day.
Gemma will give you the most, Gemini will give you the best. The former is much smaller and therefore cheaper to run, but less capable.
Although I'm not sure whether Gemma will be available even in aistudio - they took the last one down after people got it to say/do questionable stuff. It's very much intended for self-hosting.
Gemma models are already in our AIPI inference pricing index. Open source models like Gemma run 70.7% cheaper than proprietary equivalents at the median across the 2,614 SKUs we track. With Gemma 4 hitting third-party platforms the pricing will be worth watching closely. Full data at a7om.com.
We made some quants at https://huggingface.co/collections/unsloth/gemma-4 for folks to run them - they work really well!
Guide for those interested: https://unsloth.ai/docs/models/gemma-4
Also note to use temperature = 1.0, top_p = 0.95, top_k = 64 and the EOS is "<turn|>". "<|channel>thought\n" is also used for the thinking trace!
I setup a pipeline for inference with OCR, full text search, embedding and summarization of land records dating back 1800s. All powered by the GGUF's you generate and llama.cpp. People are so excited that they can now search the records in multiple languages that a 1 minute wait to process the document seems nothing. Thank you!
Oh nice! That sounds fantastic! I hope Gemma-4 will make it even better! The small ones 2B and 4B are shockingly good haha!
You have an answer on your page regarding "Should I pick 26B-A4B or 31B?", but can you please clarify if, assuming 24GB vRAM, I should pick a full precision smaller model or 4 bit larger model?
I presume 24B is somewhat faster since it's only 4B activated - 31B is quite a large dense model so more accurate!
I am not sure if someone might have asked this already to you, but I have a question (out of curiosity) as to which open source model you find best and also, which AI training team (Qwen/Gemini/Kimi/GLM) has cooperated the most with the Unsloth team and is friendly to work with from such perspective?
Tbh Gemma-4 haha - it's sooooo good!!!
For teams - Google haha definitely hands down then Qwen, Meta haha through PyTorch and Llama and Mistral - tbh all labs are great!
(Comparing Q3.5-27B to G4 26B A4B and G4 31B specifically)
I'd assume Q3.5-35B-A3B would performe worse than the Q3.5 deep 27B model, but the cards you pasted above, somehow show that for ELO and TAU2 it's the other way around...
Very impressed by unsloth's team releasing the GGUF so quickly, if that's like the qwen 3.5, I'll wait a few more days in case they make a major update.
Overall great news if it's at parity or slightly better than Qwen 3.5 open weights, hope to see both of these evolve in the sub-32GB-RAM space. Disappointed in Mistral/Ministral being so far behind these US & Chinese models
Because those are two different, completely independent Elos... the one you linked is for LMArena, not Codeforces.
Same here. I can't wait until mlx-community releases MLX optimized versions of these models as well, but happily running the GGUFs in the meantime!
Edit: And looks like they're up!
https://gist.github.com/simonw/12ae4711288637a722fd6bd4b4b56...
The gemma-4-31b model is completely broken for me - it just spits out "---\n" no matter what prompt I feed it.
I agree it's misleading for them to hyper-focus on one metric, but public benchmarks are far from the only thing that matters. I place more weight on Lmarena scores and private benchmarks.
[0] https://oobabooga.github.io/benchmark.html
[0] https://arena.ai/leaderboard/chat
https://developers.googleblog.com/en/gemma-3-quantized-aware...
Having 4 bit QAT versions of the larger models would be great for people who only have 16 or 24 GB of VRAM.
Thank you for the release.
What's the business case for releasing Gemma and not just focusing on Gemini + cloud only?
With the caveat that I'm not on the pixel team and I'm not building _all_ the models that are used on, its evident there are many models that support the Android experience, from autocomplete on keyboard to image editing.
https://store.google.com/us/magazine/magic-editor?hl=en-US&p...
The decision is always a mix between how good we can make the models from a technical aspect, with how good they need to be to make all of you super excited to use them. And its a bit of a challenge what is an ever changing ecosystem.
I'm personally curious is there a certain parameter size you're looking for?
Also, as I understand it the 26B is the MOE and the 31B is dense - why is the larger one dense and the smaller one MOE?
Was it too good or not good enough? (blink twice if you can't answer lol)
Isn't that more dictated by the competition you're facing from Llama and Qwent?
I personally strive to build software and models provides provides the best and most usable experience for lots of people. I did this before I joined google with open source, and my writing on "old school" generative models, and I'm lucky that I get to this at Google in the current LLM era.
Where can I download the full model? I have 128GB Mac Studio
-Chris Lattner (yes, affiliated with Modular :-)
The sizes are E2B and E4B (following gemma3n arch, with focus on mobile) and 26BA4 MoE and 31B dense. The mobile ones have audio in (so I can see some local privacy focused translation apps) and the 31B seems to be strong in agentic stuff. 26BA4 stands somewhere in between, similar VRAM footprint, but much faster inference.
It's a good balance between accuracy and memory, though in my experience, it's slower than older model architectures such as Llava. Just be aware Qwen-VL tends to be a bit verbose [2], and you can’t really control that reliably with token limits - it'll just cut off abruptly. You can ask it to be more concise but it can be hit or miss.
What I often end up doing and I admit it's a bit ridiculous is letting Qwen-VL generate its full detailed output, and then passing that to a different LLM to summarize.
- [1] https://ollama.com/library/qwen3-vl:8b
- [2] https://mordenstar.com/other/vlm-xkcd
How does the ecosystem work? Have things converged and standardized enough where it's "easy" (lol, with tooling) to swap out parts such as weights to fit your needs? Do you need to autogen new custom kernels to fix said things? Super cool stuff.
The E2B/E4B models also support voice input, which is rare.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47520438
https://unsloth.ai/docs/models/gemma-4 > Gemma 4 GGUFs > "Use this model" > llama.cpp > llama-server -hf unsloth/gemma-4-31B-it-GGUF:Q8_0
If you already have llama.cpp you might need to update it to support Gemma 4.
First message:
https://i.postimg.cc/yNZzmGMM/Screenshot-2026-04-03-at-12-44...
Not sure if I'm doing something wrong?
This more or less reflects my experience with most local models over the last couple years (although admittedly most aren't anywhere near this bad). People keep saying they're useful and yet I can't get them to be consistently useful at all.
I had a similarly bad experience running Qwen 3.5 35b a3b directly through llama.cpp. It would massively overthink every request. Somehow in OpenCode it just worked.
I think it comes down to temperature and such (see daniel‘s post), but I haven’t messed with it enough to be sure.
One more thing about Google is that they have everything that others do not:
1. Huge data, audio, video, geospatial 2. Tons of expertise. Attention all you need was born there. 3. Libraries that they wrote. 4. Their own data centers and cloud. 4. Most of all, their own hardware TPUs that no one has.
Therefore once the bubble bursts, the only player standing tall and above all would be Google.
Maybe the model is good but the product is so shitty that I can't perceive its virtues while using it. I would characterize it as pretty much unusable (including as the "Google Assistant" on my phone).
It's extremely frustrating every way that I've used it but it seems like Gemini and Gemma get nothing but praise here.
The other thing that kills me about Gemini is that the voice recognition is god-awful. All of the chat interfaces I use have transcriptions that include errors (which the bot usually treats unthinkingly as what I actually said, instead of acting as if we may be using a fallible voice transcription), but Gemini's is the worst by far. I often have to start conversations over because of such badly mangled transcriptions.
The accuracy problems are the biggest and most important frustrations, but I also find Gemini insufferably chummy and condescending. It often resorts to ELI5 metaphors when describing things to me where the whole metaphor is based on some tenuous link to some small factoid it thinks it remembers about my life.
The experiences it seems people get out of Gemini today seem like a waste of a frontier lab's resources tbf. If I wanted fast but lower quality I'd go to one of the many smaller providers that aren't frontier labs because lots of them are great at speed and/or efficiency.
Really eager to test this version with all the extra capabilities provided.
Others have just borrowed data, money, hardware and they would run out of resources for sure.
At least, as of this post
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47615002
We are at least 1 year and at most 2 years until they surpass closed models for everyday tasks that can be done locally to save spending on tokens.
Until they pass what closed models today can do.
By that time, closed models will be 4 years ahead.
Google would not be giving this away if they believed local open models could win.
Google is doing this to slow down Anthropic, OpenAI, and the Chinese, knowing that in the fullness of time they can be the leader. They'll stop being so generous once the dust settles.
Google, at least, is likely interested in such a scenario, given their broad smartphone market. And if their local Gemma/Gemini-nano LLMs perform better with Gemini in the cloud, that would naturally be a significant advantage.
I am only a casual AI chatbot user, I use what gives me the most and best free limits and versions.
Although I'm not sure whether Gemma will be available even in aistudio - they took the last one down after people got it to say/do questionable stuff. It's very much intended for self-hosting.