I think there's a solid case for someone to make a monitor with a working, built-in dock. I mean, many monitors already have USB-outs for keyboards and 2nd displays and such.
I think monitors are a sweet spot - they tend to stick around longer than computers, and docks really don't need to change a lot over time, at least now with thunderbolt out there. Fewer cables, too.
I like the idea of standalone docks, and I purchased a few, but none reliably worked for me.
Some monitors kind of do this. They have usb-c connectors for laptop video and charing and can do kvm-ish stuff, having a usb hub for talking to a keyboard and mouse (switchable between inputs).
I have a ViewSonic ultrawide like this, picked it up as a factory refurb from their eBay account. Makes it incredibly easy to switch between work and personal laptops (Mac and pc), as well as a gaming tower.
Dell has a few. I have the U2723QE. It reliably wakes up my Windows desktop but waking up my Macbook is a crapshoot. I'm pretty sure the issue is in Apple's software, not the docks.
I've been following this issue pretty closely, and it's not only Macs that have this problem with dell monitors, if you check out the dell support forum there are various PC users reporting the problem even dell precision users. Also there are various other problems with the monitor firmware like it crashing and needing to be restarted etc.
Additionally, if you look at the firmware updates they published for the successor U2725QE you'll see things[0] again not specific to Macs like
* resolves monitor wake-from-sleep issues; and
* resolves daisy-chained monitors not waking from standby;
Which may not be exactly the same bug, but probably is & it shows the problems are getting addressed in Dell's own firmware
My experience with non-Apple Thunderbolt products has been pretty dicey across the board. My ASUS motherboard has a port and theoretically works with it but across several firmware, BIOS, and driver upgrades, I’ve never actually got it to successfully recognize my TS4 as a Thunderbolt device, only USB.
Please take this gently, but I did not really walk away from this post having gained anything. I don't have any problems with the post in isolation but I just don't feel it really offers enough weight to be here if that makes sense.
I read a few of your other posts and your writing style is direct and pleasant in a way I appreciate. Thank you for actually writing things.
The author does not call it out, but I think the point is that it's not only the dock. I've been struggling with MBP wakeup issues for a while. We have a whole zoo of various apple devices attached to a number of docks. All of the monitors are Odyssey Neo G9. TL:DR an issue with MBP port, MBP to Dock link, Dock, Dock to Monitor link, or the monitor itself could cause the unplugging dance.
In addition, it takes some time for Apple to squash bugs after releasing new hardware or software. M5s used to be unreliable with Anker TB4 until 1-2 months ago.
Us old people have the idea of peripherals as input (keyboard, mouse) or output (monitor, printer) - but they've all been input/output for two decades or more; and Thunderbolt and friends are much more like an Ethernet network (reliability of Wake on LAN, anyone?) than they are simple point-to-point connections.
Meaning - anything could be the device preventing what you expect to happen, even if it looks like it should be impossible and have nothing to do with it.
> I did not really walk away from this post having gained anything
Then my comment won't help you much: since I swapped my MacBook Air M1's 27" monitor for a 34" one from the same brand, it's only been the exact clusterfuck of unreliable "wake up not working properly anymore" for no friggin' reason. Except in my case it was working fine, and now it's not anymore.
I use two different docks. Dock 1 is a cheap chinese dock with some ports that worked (it has many ports). Dock 2 is hp g2 (an expensive dock). Occasionally the screen shuts off and resumes a second later in the dock 1. And resuming from sleep, the laptop doesn’t detect the keyboard. I figured it was until the laptop is fully up, I should not plug in the usb. On dock 2, the laptop goes to sleep and won’t turn back on from the keyboard until I press the power button.
Thunderbolt/USB-C protocols are basically at the edge of what's electrically possible. If you look at Ethernet equipment that's roughly in the same speed range and notice how much it costs, it's clear there are heavy tradeoffs with the consumer stuff.
I use a bunch of Lenovo Thunderbolt docks, with both Macbooks and Thinkpads. The older models go for as little as $20 used nowadays. I had to update the firmware on the really old ones, but after that they work flawlessly and let me connect 2x4k60 monitors.
I have a ThinkPad Thunderbolt 4 Workstation Dock - Type 40B0.
Last time a firmware update came out I couldn't run it from my Lenovo laptop. I had to use a non-Lenovo one. Really made me angry about their quality control.
Next to that the dock has this weird behavior when the laptop is asleep, the monitors wake up every 5 minutes.
I had the first generation Anker TB2 doc and that was the first time I ever saw them produce a product that was a dud.
They sent me a replacement and I had the same problems. Then found out it was a design problem not a manufacturing one. They could send me 10 more and they would still not wake up all the ports properly. I don't even recall now what series of ritual steps I took to wake it up. I think unplugging it completely from everything. Which is actually more cable wear than not having a dock.
USB4 or 240Hz monitors are more likely to have a modern HDMI/DP chipset, relative to 60Hz monitors. It’s not a certain relationship but it can be a useful filter for dreck to narrow one’s choices to monitors that support either USB4, or 4K at 75+ fps, since that wipes out a lot of old HDMI 2.0 chipsets — which is a useful, if imperfect, proxy for Thunderbolt chipset quality. A monitor that’s just trying to hit $100 will cheerfully target old HDMI and old DisplayPort with random-old-DSC. For Apple gear, random crap like that will typically end up being a disaster for Apple laptops, anyways, because Apple takes for granted that all of those stacks are in sync and before USB4 they rarely were.
I just looked up who runs the Thunderbolt specification, and was surprised to see that it's owned by Intel. But Thunderbolt 4 was donated to the USB Implementers Forum so maybe that's why things are improving.
I think monitors are a sweet spot - they tend to stick around longer than computers, and docks really don't need to change a lot over time, at least now with thunderbolt out there. Fewer cables, too.
I like the idea of standalone docks, and I purchased a few, but none reliably worked for me.
look for dell monitors with kvm
Additionally, if you look at the firmware updates they published for the successor U2725QE you'll see things[0] again not specific to Macs like
* resolves monitor wake-from-sleep issues; and * resolves daisy-chained monitors not waking from standby;
Which may not be exactly the same bug, but probably is & it shows the problems are getting addressed in Dell's own firmware
[0]https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/driversdetai...
I read a few of your other posts and your writing style is direct and pleasant in a way I appreciate. Thank you for actually writing things.
Fabien Sanglard's HN handle is fabiensanglard
In addition, it takes some time for Apple to squash bugs after releasing new hardware or software. M5s used to be unreliable with Anker TB4 until 1-2 months ago.
Meaning - anything could be the device preventing what you expect to happen, even if it looks like it should be impossible and have nothing to do with it.
Then my comment won't help you much: since I swapped my MacBook Air M1's 27" monitor for a 34" one from the same brand, it's only been the exact clusterfuck of unreliable "wake up not working properly anymore" for no friggin' reason. Except in my case it was working fine, and now it's not anymore.
Last time a firmware update came out I couldn't run it from my Lenovo laptop. I had to use a non-Lenovo one. Really made me angry about their quality control.
Next to that the dock has this weird behavior when the laptop is asleep, the monitors wake up every 5 minutes.
They sent me a replacement and I had the same problems. Then found out it was a design problem not a manufacturing one. They could send me 10 more and they would still not wake up all the ports properly. I don't even recall now what series of ritual steps I took to wake it up. I think unplugging it completely from everything. Which is actually more cable wear than not having a dock.
My chances of getting new monitors are slim in this climate but it's a new avenue of investigation at least.
[1]: https://www.8bitdo.com/retro-mechanical-keyboard-m/
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