Shopify moves back to Native from React Native

(shopify.engineering)

244 points | by fnthawar2 1 hour ago

59 comments

  • Waterluvian 1 hour ago
    If you put every company that needs/has an app on a spectrum, there is a line somewhere that roughly divides them into two groups: where Electron/React Native/etc. makes sense or not. It's just a normal engineering decision: solving problems given limited resources. Companies have different problems and different resources.

    I think people in the tech community have probably also noticed that it's rather popular to have an absolute opinion on the goodness or badness of these tools. There's some magical thinking borne from ignorance that everyone just ought to go native or that React Native is the best thing ever to be used everywhere or that AI makes this line disappear entirely.

    I think these takes serve little value and distract from what’s interesting, and what the subtitle to this article says: that this line is moving due to AI. And I think that’s probably right.

    • paxys 58 minutes ago
      And the “makes sense or not” part can change based on a bunch of factors.

      It’s actually pretty common for a new company to start fully native (only iOS, few features, limited scope), then switch ro react native/electron (need to support more surfaces, features are being developed too quickly), then back to fully native (can afford individual dev teams for each platform).

      • embedding-shape 10 minutes ago
        Yeah, massive parts of our community and ecosystem miss that something can be right today, and wrong tomorrow, and having to change along with your users and needs is OK. You'll never be able to anticipate what the business needs in the future, so stop pretending your software design can be done once and then just coast on that, because that's typically not how a software project should be run long-term or even medium-term.
    • kelnos 42 minutes ago
      > I think people in the tech community have probably also noticed that it's rather popular to have an absolute opinion on the goodness or badness of these tools.

      I don't think that's necessarily true. Nuance is a thing.

      These tools are bad, objectively! They give inferior user experiences, and waste resources (ever more important now with RAM prices what they are).

      But that doesn't mean I can't understand or even agree with a company for using them. Building the same native application for more than one platform is expensive and time-consuming. Most of the time I'm happy to prefer an app built with a cross-platform framework vs. not having one at all.

      (To be fair, though, if there's a webapp, 90% of the time I'll prefer that over an Electron app. But nothing meets a well-built native app.)

      • danisth 32 minutes ago
        I think you contradicted yourself. If a tool provides better value for the time spent for a company, I don’t understand how you can call it objectively bad.

        You can say it’s objectively bad from a technical perspective, but clearly that’s only one part of the equation.

        • shiflett 15 minutes ago
          I think they were speaking as a user. These tools create inferior products. (Still not technically objective, but true nonetheless.)

          That doesn't mean companies should necessarily avoid them. As a user, I always want the best possible user experience, but a company can't prioritize that above all else, and I know that.

        • 1123581321 20 minutes ago
          I'm not the OP, but my understanding (and I agree) is that it can seem like a better value when a subset of factors are considered (ones that IT can measure, biases in IT against Apple etc.) and it leads the company into making a choice that is worse for them overall.
        • ToucanLoucan 20 minutes ago
          It's objectively bad because of how hot my phone is.

          It's subjectively bad because it's an embarrassment. Like you're seriously going to tell me something like Discord, worth 15 BILLION, cannot afford native apps? Spare me.

          • 0cf8612b2e1e 11 minutes ago
            What really grinds my gears is Microsoft replacing native apps with Electron. Trillion dollar company who is so cash strapped they have no choice but to punt to the easy development path.
            • ToucanLoucan 6 minutes ago
              What's extra egregious there is I do understand the logic because developing for Windows is such a fucking nightmare, that they're also responsible for.
      • hylaride 5 minutes ago
        Nuance is always a thing. Native apps are faster and better most of the time. Electron and React Native wouldn't annoy me so much if they were used with small apps where it's not worth over-optimizing.

        However, it's now the default for Multiplatform apps that are used constantly, including IDEs, chat apps, etc. They gobble up memory and cpu cycles and are constantly getting updates due to the shitshow that is the javascript dependancy ecosystem.

      • kevin_thibedeau 4 minutes ago
        A well built native app can still serve as a vector for harvesting personal data in ways you cannot control. A web app is inherently superior because of its security envelope.
      • sfn42 12 minutes ago
        I don't have any actual experience with React Native and Electron, but with that caveat out of the way I personally think tools get far too much blame that should be on developers.

        For an example that I actually have experience with, React very frequently gets criticized for being slow, heavy etc. React is not slow. I can make (have made) fast and snappy websites in react. React can render at more than 60fps if necessary, and if the code isn't shit. The fact that someone else has made a slow buggy mess with React does not prove that react is bad, it simply proves that the developers are bad. At this point, someone will typically interject with something along the lines of "but react makes it hard to make fast websites" and to that I simply say no it doesn't. I've seen what makes react apps slow, and it's generally just bad code. The developers who make shitty react apps would make equally shitty apps with any tool because they're the problem not the tool. They don't know how to build good software and literally no tool can help them because it's simply a matter of understanding programming and the sad fact is most developers suck at programming.

        I graduated university with about 200 others and out of those people who have the same degree as I do, very few were even decent at programming. I know that because I was the guy who helped them complete their assignments and I was a TA in several different classes, and I'm telling you the overwhelming majority of students sucked at programming even after 2-3 years of studying it.

        After graduating I've worked on many different web apps and other stuff, and I've seen an overwhelming trend of trash code and bad developers. The people who actually care about writing good software and have the mental facilities to do so are few and far between. And that's why most software sucks. A good developer can write good software using pretty much any of the popular tools. The tools are just different ways to do the same stuff. Sure there's some overhead with react etc but it's really not that significant, the significant part is all the trash code people put on top of it.

        • bushbaba 1 minute ago
          Most enterprises are comprised of a high proportion of shit developers. So you need to work with what you got
      • echelon 29 minutes ago
        None of this matters anymore.

        We have LLMs.

        It's easy to build native everything now without much resource expenditure.

        Android will be Kotlin. iOS will be Swift. Desktop and server will be Rust. Web will be TypeScript / React for now, but maybe one day WASM.

        LLMs are the target now.

        • WindyTree 10 minutes ago
          This is one of those “oh gosh” posts at first glance, then you actually think about it, and it’s 100% correct. Python, Node exist to save the precious commodity of developer time. Once that’s no longer precious, best value comes from purified custom Rust, no attack surface from huge libraries, optimized performance for the specific task on all possible hardware.
        • raincole 11 minutes ago
          Yet, neither ChatGPT desktop app nor Claude Code CLI is native. Mind you these are made by companies with practically infinite tokens.
        • suriyaG 19 minutes ago
          not sure why you're getting downvoted. but if you're building even very popular applications, it is quite easy to see how LLMs are very well suited for this type of consistency job.

          - they follow instructions quite well. - are tireless at doing mechanical ports between languages and frameworks. - Can understand a new ecosystem quite well.

    • wwalexander 47 minutes ago
      Using cross-platform web technology is absolutely a nuanced engineering decision that is the right one for many businesses. What is categorically bad is bundling a standalone browser runtime for every single service, wasting user’s storage and memory when you could just have a website in a browser.

      Is there any major browser now that doesn’t support saving websites as apps? Electron is simply a suboptimal and incorrect way of producing web apps.

      • moritzwarhier 1 minute ago
        [delayed]
      • user43928 38 minutes ago
        That decision is easy: do users leave bad reviews for bundling a few hundred MB of Chromium?

        Do they leave bad reviews if your app malfunctions due to the system webview behaving differently than the Chromium version you tested with?

        Forget about saving websites as apps, no one does that. Not sure if it works on Desktop Safari, it certainly doesn't on iOS Safari. Not even persistent storage is offered for PWAs. Apple likes the billions in AppStore fees they rake in every quarter.

        • TheRealPomax 27 minutes ago
          It's funny how folks can't even get that number right. Depending on how much you care to optimize, Electron adds 50 to 80 MB to your application. Those multi hundreds of megabyte apps? Yeah that's not because of electron, that's things like "we couldn't be bothered to actually think about the assets we bundled in". 100 uncompressed 16 bit PNG? Sure why not. 20MB worth of fonts because we don't like the built in ones and no we've never heard of subsetting? Let's go. 50MB worth of .json data files that we couldn't be bothered to gzip first? Who's going to notice!

          Electron is way bigger than an app needs to be, of course, but those giant apps that you hate, 250MB just for a health tracker? That's not electron being the problem.

      • Waterluvian 44 minutes ago
        Is everyone wrong, or is there more to it than you can see from where you stand?

        I don't want to spend much time on this comment so I risk not making a sufficient point, but something I notice is that you're appraising the situation from a purely technical point of view. The technical component is just one piece of what makes a whole product. I think Apple is probably a good example: they regularly make decisions that bother the hell out of tech-centered minds.

    • afavour 37 minutes ago
      Agreed. I felt the same way when a long time ago when Airbnb made a big deal of going back to native.

      For companies the size of Shopify and Airbnb that makes sense. But that doesn’t mean a small ten person startup should do the same thing.

    • stickfigure 51 minutes ago
      These takes are also a bit premature. Wait until the new apps have rolled out and users are happy.

      Most likely this will work out fine, but big rewrites like this have a big enough chance of going off the rails that I wouldn't shout success from the rooftops just yet. I'm sure Digg engineering was proud of their rewrite too.

      • Waterluvian 49 minutes ago
        There’s risk to doing anything. There’s risk to doing nothing. A bit off topic but my perception is that organizations bias towards doing something more often than they should.
  • atonse 1 hour ago
    We did the same thing - had 90% of it overnight. Then spent a few days in the background tweaking for polish.

    Our app is smaller, and has about 15-20 screens. I started at about 12:30am by giving codex a goal and it inventoried every screen based on the react native code, then created android and iOS directories, used maestro (I had already set up this tooling for a previous personal app build a few weeks prior), and had the whole thing working in android and iOS in the morning. Took it about 6 hours while I slept.

    The app is way smaller, launches instantly, and the android app is (supposedly) native looking. I say supposedly because I don't use android phones. But it's using Jetpack Compose and Kotlin.

    And I don't know Swift or Kotlin. I honestly don't see the point of React Native anymore. I know Expo is doing very cool agentic stuff, but I'm just not sure why I'd need any of it when I can write a native app.

    • fourside 47 minutes ago
      How are you evaluating the Android build if you don’t use Android and you don’t know Kotlin?
      • user43928 34 minutes ago
        You just install it on your phone and use the app.

        Maintainability concerns are entirely overblown by people who don't use agentic AI to develop large mobile apps, but anyway give their opinion as if they had that experience.

        I put in a few hundred hours, and I reached the same conclusion as Shopify. With reviews from other models and then a manual QA pass the result is fully usable.

        • asdfsa32 4 minutes ago
          I am using Gemini as well as Opus on a somewhat small project in React Native and I can not imagine this thing being able to build the whole thing on its own without it being a dumbpster fire.

          Can you share some details of how you work? What models? What harness?

        • masom 24 minutes ago
          > You just install it on your phone and use the app.

          OP says they don't have an android phone...

          • paxys 8 minutes ago
            No, they said they don't use android so don't know the native UX. You can test your app on the platform and confirm that the functionality all works, but how well it adheres to the platform's design language is subjective and hard to say if you aren't used to the platform.
          • arkits 15 minutes ago
            Android studio has a emulator
          • user43928 14 minutes ago
            I missed that.

            I'd order a cheap Android phone to have a device in hand instead of working only with the simulator.

    • greenowl 59 minutes ago
      And people say AI isn't taking SWE jobs...
      • mattm 53 minutes ago
        This is a type of project that likely wouldn't have been done before AI
        • eleventen 31 minutes ago
          Of course it would. Supply and demand. Some companies would decide not to bother. Others would decide it was worthwhile. The limited pool of supply (app developers) would be distributed across demand.
      • augment_me 50 minutes ago
        This is an incredibly boring task. Nothing new, just rewrite everything to just see it all rewritten again in 1 year. Perfect for LLMs and something humans shouldn't do.
        • bcrosby95 2 minutes ago
          For you. If we eliminated every task someone found boring there would be nothing for anyone to do.
        • boringg 46 minutes ago
          While I agree with that statement -- that is also a lot of jobs. We have a lot of humans -- not every single developer sits in the innovation seat. The fewer the jobs available the less employable humans.

          I think that rewrite - if AI enabled - owes its thanks to the legion of individuals who put their code up on the internet in the first place.

          Weird times.

          • doc_ick 6 minutes ago
            Unfortunately theres no thanks to the suppliers of training data. US courts made sure there’s no recompense for them, and likely never will be.

            Seems similar to eminent domain, but without limitations.

        • cheema33 44 minutes ago
          > This is an incredibly boring task.

          We all want super exciting jobs. But plenty have boring jobs like this. Between not having a job or having a boring job that pays well, the choice is obvious for many of us.

      • exe34 56 minutes ago
        It ported overnight. I don't think it would create from scratch without a lot of hand holding.
        • greenowl 54 minutes ago
          Previous company I worked for would have (and did) hire dedicated swift/java mobile developers to build and maintain ios and android native versions (largely porting functionality from an existing web application)

          Not anymore.

          • organsnyder 51 minutes ago
            That's fairly rare. Most companies would use a compatibility layer instead.
            • josephg 33 minutes ago
              Really? I’ve worked with plenty of companies that had separate native iOS & Android teams. I don’t know any that use a compatibility layer. Unless by compatibility layer, you mean a web view.
    • larodi 30 minutes ago
      React native is an obstacle compared to what clear Swift/Kotlin code may produce. Swift is very powerful and Kotlin, in all honesty, is the first reasonable and very useful thing to come to the JRE ecosystem (save for Scala, which is, well, quite complex still).

      Myself turned some python code to Swift, and keep doing so, without trouble or pressure. Of course, I've been doing fair amount of systems programming for 20 years now, so not sure what to advice newcomers. But this approach to dev DOES work for me very well.

      • doc_ick 17 minutes ago
        Sounds like the advice to newcomers is to not worry about trying to learn a programming language. There already is an llm to program for you, and do it better than you could, so just learn how to talk.
    • asdfsa32 11 minutes ago
      Codex with what model?
    • alostpuppy 59 minutes ago
      This has been my conclusion as well. Agentic workflows drops the effort level in keeping two native code bases in sync.
      • sprite 53 minutes ago
        Same conclusion here. My current preferred setup is native for iOS and Android with common core in rust exposed through uniffi
        • asdfsa32 7 minutes ago
          I was surprised by your comments and then you do Rust to be called via Java or Kotlin and Swift?

          What does your app do?

    • jgalt212 57 minutes ago
      And there's no proprietary IP in your company's app that you don't mind being sucked up into the training data?
      • masom 19 minutes ago
        > there's no proprietary IP in your company's app

        For most app that concept is "gone".

        People routinely decompile and recompose existing binaries, and if you use "obfuscation" in your app it's still a small bump.

        In today's age, IP is no longer a tangible concept that gives any advantages in software. What differentiates two businesses isn't their IP, it's their relationships and their moat.

        Most vendors that had protected proprietary IP are now irrelevant within their vertical. What saves them are the protection provided by patents, which is public.

      • drdexebtjl 22 minutes ago
        Are you saying you don’t trust ZDR claims from inference providers?

        They don’t care about your code. There’s more and better data on the public web.

      • c16 44 minutes ago
        As other have mentioned, the code isn't the valuable part. But also there are alternatives now to these LLM providers.
      • exe34 55 minutes ago
        The value of most companies/apps are in the relationship with the customers, so it's the database, not the code.
        • stwrt 48 minutes ago
          Definitely agree. Most developers could build a basic Twitter or Facebook clone. The hard part is getting the users, content, and relationships that make the product worth coming back to.
    • locallost 30 minutes ago
      Next up, designing an even higher level language which will be used by LLMs to compile to high level languages like kotlin or swift. Just store instructions for LLMs in repos.
    • zx8080 46 minutes ago
      [flagged]
  • netshade 2 minutes ago
    I agree w/ advising people to move off React Native, though I think the story that "LLM enabled an otherwise too-expensive migration to consider" is not correct.

    I say this because I was part of a migration from a mid-size React Native app to a Swift/Kotlin native app redo. I did the majority of the technical work on it. The majority of the work occurred before January 2026 and without LLM code assistance, though later features in the app definitely used some.

    For anyone considering this, I'd say that the migration is definitely worth considering without even taking LLM assistance into consideration. The continued React Native tax of unnecessarily difficult upgrades, impedance mismatch w/ underlying core frameworks, and incredibly uneven library quality just cause your business to really spend a lot of time shepherding the tech over the finish line. It's pretty wonderful to be back in the world of "build, compile, ship, be sure". One thing as a fundamental principle that I think the Shopify article 'gets' at, is the importance of the feedback cycle - investing time in our integration test story very early on both helped w/ my cycle times, and later in providing guardrails for LLM assistance.

    All to say that this decision is worth considering without even taking LLM assistance into account.

  • fnthawar2 1 hour ago
    We don’t hold on to a decision just because it was successful at the time. When a core assumption changes, we’re willing to go back and ask whether it’s still the right call. LLMs changed one of the core assumptions behind our 2020 decision, so we reevaluated our mobile stack from first principles.

    What we found led us back to native.

    • railka 1 hour ago
      Yes, AI have changed the game, and now you can build and maintain two separate projects in Swift & Kotlin instead of one on React
    • accumulator 35 minutes ago
      Thanks for the write-up. I'm curious if there's a shared core between the iOS and Android apps (e.g. KMP or Rust), and if so, what that looks like.

      Also, any plans to open source Helix?

    • ceejayoz 1 hour ago
      I suspect we'll see a lot of large orgs doing this in the next year.
      • joshstrange 1 hour ago
        Perhaps. I can absolutely see that being more attractive especially with things like the Duo where, I assume, SwiftUI gives you a number of things "for free".

        That said, the massive downsides to native are:

        - App Store Review time, this used to be hours to 1-2 days, now it can take a week or more

        - In the same vein, you can do updates without waiting on native when using web technologies to build your app. We can go from a bug in the field to a fix in <1hr easy. Try doing that with a native app

        - Cross-platform, yes LLMs mean you can create a native iOS and Android app but you have to keep those in sync to say nothing of web (if you want to offer a web app as well)

        - Like the point above: Web, if you want to support web, why not get the other platform for cheaper (shared logic)

        • joenada 1 hour ago
          Your assumptions are very outdated. App Store review times are typically < 24 hours and have been for the last couple of years. And KMP makes cross-platform a real thing now, rather than hacking a web view into a native shell, which was always the worst possible user experience.
          • ftchd 19 minutes ago
            Apple has started automating them a while ago so a lot of them are indeed <24 hrs. I wouldn't say they are wrong though.

            Just this week I've had an app stay for 9 days in review and another one for 8 hours. Same dev account, same niche.

          • joshstrange 20 minutes ago
            I'm afraid you are the one out of date here. App Store Review times have ballooned in the last few months. Marco Arment talked about this publically (on the ATP podcast) about how his app was stuck in review for over 2 weeks IIRC and I've seen 2 days as the minimum review time in the last few months with some taking a week or more.

            Yes, for a while they were doing very well and I even once had an app reviewed in <1hr but the average has been creeping up. LLM/Vibe coding is what is often blamed for this increase though at the end of the day it's Apple's problem/fault for not staffing the review department better.

            • joenada 15 minutes ago
              This is only anecdotal, but I had a review on a brand new app turned around in ~6 hours 2 days ago. A lot of it has always been luck of the draw, though, granted.
              • joshstrange 5 minutes ago
                I agree it's anecdotal but that's all I have to go off and global averages don't help me at all. The problem it's a complete crap-shoot. You have no way of knowing if you are going to get a quick turnaround or a long one, it has zero bearing on if it's a new app or update or the size of the update, it's completely random. I cannot plan around random which is why I've opted for web-tech-based apps (Capacitor) with OTA updates so I can get fixes out just as quick as I could get webapp updates out.

                I just ran an analysis of my apps and the fastest was 8hrs (June 20th) but since then it's been trending upwards with my last 3 updates coming in at 40hrs, 67hrs, and 98hrs. These are all my apps, the company I work for has at least 2 recent updates that took over a week. That's just absurd.

                If the App Store can commit to 24hrs being the max time then maybe I'd be interested but for the foreseeable future I'll "Settle" for instant updates when I have a fix ready instead of waiting on Apple. Especially with how random approvals are (not just the time, the approval itself), I'll ship a tiny fix and App Review will kick it back for some native API I've been using since version 1 that they now want more info about. I don't fancy having my businesses at the whim of Apple Review.

          • paulryanrogers 43 minutes ago
            Doesn't KMP assume your team is comfortable working in Kotlin?
            • joenada 12 minutes ago
              Yes, that's fair. I'd argue, though, that the training required to get your team up and running should be fairly minimal - Kotlin is a very easy language to pick up, especially for people coming from TS - and will pay off dividends in the medium to long term.
            • mike_hearn 9 minutes ago
              Well, it assumes the model is.

              KMP can be seen as a token optimization at this point. Business logic is shared and doesn't have to be rewritten in Swift.

        • Rohansi 47 minutes ago
          You get all of those, to some extent, if you use React Native. You still need to do reviews for significant changes due to app store rules but you can OTA update most changes without waiting on a review. Even web support is there.

          There are cons to targetting web/PWA too. Push notifications work but Safari on iOS only allows them if the user adds your website to their home screen. It also doesn't support prompting the user to install the PWA so you have to instruct your users to tap the Share button, tap View more, and then tap Add to Home Screen. And as soon as they tap the Share button the menu opens on top of your instructions so they need to remember the steps to continue. It's hard to defend this behavior because the user will still need to allow notification permission when they open your PWA from their home screen. It's an unnecessary hurdle.

        • schrodinger 48 minutes ago
          • joshstrange 18 minutes ago
            I'm sorry but that data does not at all square with my experience. I'm seeing 2 days+ as the average and I haven't seen sub-24hrs in months. I oversee ~20 apps and I can tell you iOS review times have been trending upwards for the last few months.
      • dpark 1 hour ago
        I’m surprised we aren’t seeing it more already. LLMs suddenly make it reasonable to maintain multiple native apps. I’d love to see this start to supplant Electron and its ilk.
      • stephenhuey 45 minutes ago
        Definitely makes sense for a large org with massive resources (such as Shopify) to do this. But for everyone here pondering what to use for their startup or a smaller project, there are still important trade-offs. In the past few years I've launched multiple cross-platform Flutter apps and multiple native iOS and Android apps using Jumpstart iOS and Android (native templates from the GoRails guys which leverage web views from your Jumpstart Rails server). The latter gave me web, iOS and Android out of the box and was vastly less costly to build, even with AI. For entrepreneurs who like Ruby on Rails, Jumpstart is my favorite for launching rapidly, and since the mobile apps are easy-to-modify iOS and Android projects, it's designed so you can either add more custom Hotwire Native Bridge Components or just write Swift and Kotlin to replace functionality with native code. Eventually you could write away all of the Jumpstart webview stuff, but you'd only do that if you had more runway, like if you have plenty of time or you start making lots of money. I've worked for clients whose ideas failed--not because of my code, of course. :)

        It's better to find out quickly if you can get traction rather than building something requiring more maintenance. For most bug fixes or enhancements, you make them in the Jumpstart Rails side and they should up instantly in the mobile apps without going through app review again! Most projects are not being built in companies the size of Shopify, so I caution anyone who wants to just get the project out there to use platforms that give them more leverage. And no, I'm still not a fan of low-code or no-code, because I know what it's like to have to maintain apps over many years.

        Oh, and I still always warn clients to stay away from native mobile unless they absolutely need it, because even with AI, maintaining just a web app is still light years faster, and far more pleasant. I know from very, very, very recent experience that testing subscriptions is still annoyingly cumbersome in the flaky Apple and Google sandbox environments, and Stripe for web apps is night and day easier to test. Testing on mobile is better than it used to be, but sometimes when I'm waiting for builds onto a physical device or for confusing settings in App Store Connect or Google Play Console to take effect (or just fine where they've been moved to), I think about how a manager 20 years ago was telling me how slowly his development lifecycle was when he used to burn software onto ROM chips. So web is still the way to go, and native mobile only if you absolutely have to. And if you have tons of time or money, sure, start with plain native.

        Edit: As a web developer for decades, I still find both Jumpstart iOS/Android and Flutter to be preferable to React Native.

    • fnikacevic 1 hour ago
      Any education required for engineers to switch to native or the agents are handling the details on their own? Wondering if architecture or the new languages require ramp up.
    • dfabulich 29 minutes ago
      Did you switch to SwiftUI or UIKit?
  • pkaler 57 minutes ago
    I'm sitting here at my desk overlooking Cordova Street. The street that Apache Cordova is named after. I've seen this debate for almost two decades now.

    Teams jump on the latest cross-platform framework assuming that it will reduce headcount cost at the expense of having a lowest-common denominator app on each platform.

    The latter is true but the former is false.

    What ends up happening is that teams start as 20 iOS engineers & 20 Android engineers. They adopt something like React Native. Then you end up with a team of 20 product engineers and 20 tooling and framework engineers.

    I've seen that countless times in the last two decades.

    • vsviridov 36 minutes ago
      Pretty sure I've seen you either at B-Sides or Polyglot... Small world...
      • pkaler 27 minutes ago
        I'll most likely be at Polyglot. I did a very small part to help organize one of the very early ones.
        • vsviridov 5 minutes ago
          I'm looking forward to the next one in October.
    • lcfcjs6 38 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • rramon 1 minute ago
    Missing out on flawless App Intents integration could be business risk for Shopify once people get used to doing everything from a central chat interface, including shopping. I guess it's the real reason for the switch.
  • underdeserver 25 minutes ago
    And I'm just sitting here looking at the Codex desktop mac app wondering why a list, a chat window and textbox require a 579 MB download (compressed) and 4 GB of RAM.
  • ChiperSoft 25 minutes ago
    Before I even opened the article I knew the reason was because LLMs don't need abstractions. React Native was always about making app construction easier for people who don't want to learn ObjC or Swift. If you're not writing or even reviewing the code yourself, this is unneeded overhead.

    For a while I've been wondering why people are even bothering with high level languages if you aren't even gonna read the code.

  • asimovDev 1 hour ago
    Dropping React and going back to raw JavaScript next?

    I am still mourning pre-React GitHub. Maybe rose-tinted glasses, but it was so pleasant to use

    • vendiddy 50 minutes ago
      I would attribute that more to culture.

      For example https://diffs.com/ is built in React and it's basically instant.

      • bob1029 41 minutes ago
        I would attribute it to physics.

        If the entire page is rendered on the server, the information required to do so is presumably reasonably approximate (same datacenter). If most of the page is rendered on the client, the information needs to be pulled in from arbitrary physical distances.

        At some point the engineering really is this simple.

    • imposter 58 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • seanhly 54 minutes ago
    Bragging about "using agents to code pre-GPT" is quite the corporate flex... weren't they notoriously bad back then? Might as well say, "We've been doing spreadsheets with quantum computing since 2016"
    • mike_hearn 4 minutes ago
      I'm skeptical. Pre-ChatGPT the models didn't understand tool calls or file editing so you couldn't really do targeted edits. So I really am not sure what they mean by this.

      I mean, it's not impossible - I wrote a "coding agent" with GPT-3. It sucked balls. The idea was you write a Markdown spec file and the tool then compiled it to an equivalent source code one shotting it every time, but it hardly worked at all. The file changed too much every time and instruction following wasn't good enough, so it'd keep changing the interface exported by the file, and there were lots of bugs etc.

  • koeliga 7 minutes ago
    https://shopify.engineering/shop-app-migration

    follow up with some more technical details and benchmarks

  • m_sharma 17 minutes ago
    As things get more complicated and you need to worry about performance, where every millisecond counts, it makes sense to go to native: React Native and Flutter. These kinds of technologies are really good in terms of building faster and building one app which can work across. Where that deep performance might not be of a bigger concern, or you need to go build components natively and then expose them through React Native. I think, with AI, now building even a native app is faster, so moving back to native can make sense if you have a team which can understand how things work.
  • pzo 1 hour ago
    Wish they explained more. Even though I'm mostly native iOS its seems react native is better stack for AI and iteration (hot refresh etc) - the main reason pretty much all AI vibecoding app were implemented via expo/react native.

    I also believed that finally this year react native got mature enough with improved tooling and performance to the point that it started to being 'boring' technology.

  • nshelia 9 minutes ago
    The rendering layer and APIs differ significantly between iOS and Android. Agents currently do not know how to test the UI, at least in my experience. I would be scared to do that migration right now.
  • rietta 29 minutes ago
    The promise of React Native was easing development burden from the web app to the native app. It makes sense if they are just using coding agents to cut out the framework and just go native.

    That was my thought when I saw the headline and then reading the article confirms this is the inflection point per their own words. Very interesting.

  • nielsbot 10 minutes ago
    When companies can afford to build a native app but instead use a WOSE (write once suck everywhere) toolkit, it’s because they don’t care about the user experience.
  • shawabawa3 5 minutes ago
    "native" shouldn't be capitalized in the title
  • bearjaws 32 minutes ago
    We made the same change for our patient app last month, took 2 months to rewrite from react-native to two mobile apps, but we had the PoC in under a week.

    Interestingly Apple approved it very quickly, which I was afraid of given such a huge rewrite.

  • lackoftactics 1 hour ago
    I believe this will be overall trend in industry. Dropping React Native and Flutter for native
    • accumulator 22 minutes ago
      I think it'll become a trend at larger, well-capitalized companies and startups, but not universally. The article mentions hundreds of engineers have worked on Shopify's RN apps, so they're well positioned to maintain two native codebases with agents and practically infinite token spend. Migration will be a harder sell for resource-constrained businesses.

      It also depends on features. Many apps don't rely on platform features (widgets, watch apps) and are essentially webviews, and those will continue to do just fine on RN.

    • aatd86 1 hour ago
      That would be a huge mistake if we expect many more hardware and OS running them efficiently than just iOS and Android. Best is to have an IR. Now maybe that IR can be turnt into native code. But we shouldn't be constrained. As an incoming framework author, SwiftUI is problematic for instance because it has a programming model which is dated. And I don't particularly enjoy the language either. Looked fine at first and then got more complex than I feel is needed.

      oh yeah, disclaimer: I write UI frameworks and dabble in PLs.

      • organsnyder 48 minutes ago
        > That would be a huge mistake if we expect many more hardware and OS running them efficiently than just iOS and Android.

        Is that something we should be engineering for right now?

        • aatd86 20 minutes ago
          Just like any engineering and business decision, this is a tradeoff. I probably don't see things from the same vantage point. Can't help but notice a trend however. What if this accelerates, especially with AI being an enabler?
    • conmod278 24 minutes ago
      Can React Native become a sort of Compiler which compiles to natives (Android/Apple) now that AI can help in that direction as well? I don't know much about mobile ecosystem though.
    • RetpolineDrama 35 minutes ago
      Yep. Flutter has been dead-end for a while. RN won't last through 2027.
  • gadflyinyoureye 1 minute ago
    Out of curiosity why not look at Flutter? I know you don't get native look-and-feel, but most apps are branded who cares?
  • larodi 32 minutes ago
    Truth is the Shopify app is simple enough to get right by a model. Lots of things hare simpler to get right in native code, so it is to be reiterated - a lot of interpreter code/libs is going down the drain, along with the devs that write it. These are not needed anymore.

    And, in all honesty, the difficult part with many projects is the bootstrap, the scaffolding, not the continuous dev. Agentic dev. made this a piece of cake.

  • mcsniff 50 minutes ago
    I use Shopify app every day, multiple times a day to run my business and it has always been buggy and inconsistent for me on Android, and I don't expect this will make it any better, especially with more AI in the mix, but we shall see.

    Who wants to bet there still won't be a dark mode?

  • crossroadsguy 12 minutes ago
    Few of the biggest reasons for "migration" to the likes of React Native, and web-views et cetera, were "lack of talent", and not getting that talent fast, and for cheap, et cetera, while of course terming that as innovation, embracing the future, and "that's where the game is at" et cetera. Now with the LLMs that is mostly sorted. So if anything I'd be able to see the eradication of the Electron infestation in my lifetime. But then I see the very tools these LLMs are accessed with i.e harnesses (and of course mostly made by the LLM houses) are made of Electron or similar things (sometimes a Frankenstein like mix). And even today Claude Code shows up as `2.x.yyy` for process name ffs! So if anything, this is getting worse.

    Then they say:

    > We decided to switch from native to React Native in 2020 for three reasons:

    > Stop building the same features twice

    > Allow developers to work across the stack

    > Spend less time chasing feature parity and more time shipping value

    Totally!

    Is there some kind of shame in just saying:

    - we didn't want to hire more people

    - we didn't want to pay those salaries

    - we fired a lot of engineers with move to react native/hybrid in mind

    - we could reuse the frontend devs (aka "full stack" folks) with or without some extra whippings ensuring they grok the bare minimum they'd need to build for mobile and test in on mobile.

  • ecshafer 32 minutes ago
    They don't say anything in the post. But hotwire native supports pushing ui elements to ios and android. I imagine that might be part of the reason. I haven't built anything substantial with hotwire native though so I am not sure on all of the edge cases.
  • aecorredor 42 minutes ago
    The most interesting part to me here was the whole helix thing + how they split business logic and UI just so AI agents could drive/test state via a CLI. I hope they do a deeper blog post on just that. I’m surprised they are making “decouple state from UI” sound like something groundbreaking when that’s kind of been the foundation for any sane/testable app for a LONG time.
  • 1saadcodes 25 minutes ago
    What I find interesting is how AI has changed the cost of maintaining two native apps enough that a decision that made no sense a few years ago is worth revisiting now
  • negative10xer 49 minutes ago
    I remember their blog post claiming how much of a win it was to move over to react native and maintain high performance. They even listed their performance metrics. At that time I was a mobile developer for an e-commerce business and the metrics they were proud to share were unacceptable on our native apps. Here they are coming full circle
  • running101 37 minutes ago
    I suspected we would start seeing these types of blog posts. Code is becoming low level, where people do not care what language, it is written in anymore. The cost of moving from one to another is becoming low.
  • aurareturn 44 minutes ago
    How long until LLMs just write machine code?
  • iamgopal 56 minutes ago
    when you are large enough to allocate sufficient resource, you should go native, if not, go flutter/react native etc. Its very simple decisions I guess.
  • randysalami 1 hour ago
    “We debated between gradually migrating to native (brownfield) versus rebuilding them from scratch (greenfield)… However, this time greenfield emerged as a clear winner for the following reasons”

    “To solve this problem, we built a system called Helix that takes a more gradual approach. It doesn't expect the first output to be correct, and builds a loop where an imperfect attempt simply cannot move forward until it becomes a good result.”

    If this is driven by proper engineering then hats off! Supposedly a simpler app has already been migrated and they are working on migrating the main app using this approach. I don’t even know how I can be a cynic here… because the technology is good enough and so are the engineers I don’t know how management or executives could ruin it.

    “…product quality people expect today. This isn’t just the same apps rewritten in different languages. We’re rebuilding them so both humans and agents can understand, test, and change them quickly.”

    If this was written using AI and human-edited, you missed a spot.

    • projektfu 31 minutes ago
      There's also "Helix rebuilding a screen in the Shopify mobile app using Swift and Kotlin" which sounds like a caption but there is no video or image.
    • codechicago277 1 hour ago
      Getting 11% AI on Pangram, which isn’t bad tbh.
  • basepurpose 33 minutes ago
    if native became easier to tackle with coding agents, react native would have been even more easier to scale. this decision doesn't sit well with me.
  • giebisch 1 hour ago
    Their reasoning makes sense. I'd love to read a follow-up and their thoughts in half a year.
  • kraig911 1 hour ago
    A side effect of perceived LLM Generated code is now easier to just make it write native I guess.
  • psadri 48 minutes ago
    Thanks to coding agents, there is no reason not to
  • MaoSYJ 34 minutes ago
    Who could have guessed it!
  • evilfred 1 hour ago
    using React Native you end up having to drop into native code to do anything interesting or optimized, so it feels kind of pointless to not just use the platforms directly
    • bluecheese452 45 minutes ago
      Most apps don’t do anything interesting.
  • theycallmeritik 7 minutes ago
    Good one
  • starlineventure 1 hour ago
    Native. Metal. Remove the abatraction layers
  • yieldcrv 1 hour ago
    Perfect, yeah the obvious answer and comment is in the subtitle right at the top. Good way to write an article

    > Coding agents changed what it costs to build mobile apps twice. Here’s why Shopify is moving from React Native back to Swift and Kotlin.

  • philipwhiuk 32 minutes ago
    > It doesn't expect the first output to be correct, and builds a loop where an imperfect attempt simply cannot move forward until it becomes a good result.

    So... local maxima?

  • philipwhiuk 33 minutes ago
    I guess expect no new features on mobile until their token budget gets through all the screens?
  • quotemstr 1 hour ago
    The wheel of fashion turns once more.
    • jmknoll 43 minutes ago
      I don't think its purely fashion here. React Native always incurred a bit of a performance & UX penalty, but many people decided that this tradeoff was worth it for the increase in product development velocity.

      LLMs change the tradeoff and organizations would be remiss to not reconsider previous decisions.

    • nacozarina 1 hour ago
      got me spinning like a record baby
    • hermitwriter 1 hour ago
      srsly
  • railka 1 hour ago
    IMHO, now is a great time to use native Swift/Kotlin code alongside shared Rust code via UniFFI
    • massel 37 minutes ago
      We've been doing this for a while and it works great. Logic and network stuff goes in Rust, UI goes in Swift/Kotlin.
    • rvz 52 minutes ago
      So you want to review and maintain code in 3 separate languages?

      Sounds like a complete waste of tokens with the worst case of just quickly building more technical debt, three times.

      • massel 35 minutes ago
        It's a lot nicer than having the same logic in 2 languages and trying to keep them in sync – whether doing it by hand or with an LLM.

        One of the big rules is don't repeat yourself – much of the logic only needs to be written once (except UI)

        • mike_hearn 2 minutes ago
          Rust is uncompetitive for the use case of sharing logic between mobile apps. Kotlin has Swift interop and KMP is a mature tech by this point.
        • doc_ick 13 minutes ago
          Well you don’t repeat yourself if the llm repeats it for you at the cost of millions of tokens.
        • rvz 22 minutes ago
          In that case, Kotlin makes even more sense especially with Kotlin Native, and Rust is unnecessary.

          Kotlin is already multi-platform and can be used as the re-useable business logic in an iOS app with Swift as the UI and the Android app with a Kotlin UI (Jetpack Compose) or both iOS and Android apps can be written entirely in Kotlin.

          That vastly reduces the maintenance and Kotlin is reused across all apps and keeps it at 2 languages at most.

          No need to introduce Rust to achieve the same goal.

  • BatchJob 33 minutes ago
    im not a fan of react native per se , but this reasoning does not add up.

    they are going to "delete an app" because they got some LLM to slop out 2 apps?

    The architect who wrote that is batshit and will be unemployed after this blows up in his face.

  • ex-aws-dude 58 minutes ago
    I don’t understand why building an app twice is a big deal in the first place if that’s a core part of your business

    Like wouldn’t you want to invest in platform specific expertise long term?

    It’s not like this is a small company or it’s just a dinky side project off of the main business

  • sergiotapia 1 hour ago
    Major loss for react native community at large with Skia and Flashlist dying. :(
    • gagabity 22 minutes ago
      Legend List is the new hotness in RN.
  • 976157424477 1 hour ago
    … from React “Native”
  • gazarsgo 1 hour ago
    Cool story but what's the token spend?
  • drchaim 1 hour ago
    good move, has sense.
  • hermitwriter 1 hour ago
    I've been around long enough to see this argument come and go under a lot of different names. This time it's AI. Maybe AI really does change the economics. But this post doesn't demonstrate it.

    Talk to me in a year.

    The side-by-side comparisons? Whoopty do. It's different code. Of course agents can produce two implementations that look the same today. That's not the hard part.

    The hard part is keeping them the same.

    Feature parity isn't an implementation cost. It's a divergence cost. It accrues over years across experiments, analytics, accessibility, edge cases, bug fixes, platform behavior, and a thousand little decisions which current agents aren't great at tracking.

    Agents can write code fast but they aren't a panacea.

    The load-bearing sentence in the whole post is this:

    "Shared specifications, tests, and review checkpoints dramatically reduced the cost of maintaining parity."

    Okay. For how long? By how much? Got any numbers to share? How will these hold up under contact with customer?

    You haven't maintained parity yet. You've built prototypes. You're making a claim about a cost that compounds over time based on what it costs at t=0.

    The other thing missing is the counterfactual. They keep comparing this rewrite to what a rewrite would have cost before coding agents. But what if you point those same agents at the existing RN codebase?

    If agents make software development cheaper, they make RN development cheaper too. And now you're modifying one implementation instead of generating, testing, reviewing, and reconciling two.

    The tooling section makes this even stranger. They find that agents are bad at driving simulators, so they pull business logic out of the UI, make it runnable headlessly, and expose a CLI.

    That's a good idea! Do that!

    But that's an architecture change, not an argument for native. You can make an RN codebase agent-friendly without rewriting five apps.

    Then you get to "Preventing slop," which is probably the most important section in the post. Just pointing an LLM at the codebase doesn't work. They had to build Helix, with ordered checkpoints, test proofs, visual diffing, adversarial reviewers, and human gates.

    So what they've actually demonstrated is that Shopify has enough engineering resources and agent infrastructure to make maintaining two codebases look economically plausible.

    Maybe it is! For Shopify.

    That's a much narrower claim than "AI changes the economics of cross-platform development."

    And where are the numbers?

    For a post about reevaluating costs from first principles, there's remarkably little cost data. Engineer hours? Review time? Defect rates? Parity failures? Agent spend? Ongoing maintenance? Anything?

    They even say RN performance isn't the problem. "React Native apps can be fast. Ours are."

    So there's no product crisis here. No performance crisis. There's an internal cost argument, with no numbers, being used to justify rewriting five apps used by millions of merchants.

    And in isolation I'd probably just shrug and say: Shopify made a bet. Let's see how it goes.

    But it's harder to view it entirely in isolation when they brought Tailwind on yesterday too.

    Shopify used to be one of the great stewards of the broader ecosystem. What worries me about the recent direction isn't any single technology choice. It's the appearance that, following the recent tech leadership changes, we're starting to see decisions driven more by the preferences of the people now making them than by demonstrated technical merit.

    Maybe that's an unfair read. I hope it is. But posts like this don't help, because if you're going to make a sweeping technical argument for a major change, show the evidence.

    The part I actually find convincing is much less exciting: Shopify is tired of paying the upstream tax. They've spent years working on RN performance, improving the framework, dealing with dependencies and upgrades, etc.

    Fair enough. That's a real cost. Being an RN framework developer or dependent is -- or has been -- awful -- it's like trying to fly a kite in a hurricane. The web team has been super disciplined and also ridiculously slow. The RN team changes apis in .. questionable ways with regards to compatibility

    But it's not new, and it has very little to do with LLMs.

    And let's not get me started on taking this kind of dependency for your business on companies who still don't have any idea how much to charge for their tools and are all operating (on a per token basis) at a loss. They're swapping some framework dependency for dependency on coding models whose capability, pricing, and terms they don't control.

    None of this means they're making the wrong decision. Maybe they're right. Maybe in three years this looks obvious.

    But that's exactly the point.

    Come back in a year and show me parity bugs, engineering hours per feature, experiment drift, accessibility regressions, review burden, model spend, and how much human work it takes to keep the implementations aligned.

    Right now they've shown that AI makes rewrites cheaper.

    Whoopty do.

  • rvz 43 minutes ago
    Agreed, the whole of the Javascript / TypeScript ecosystem has caused a slop hellscape of workarounds, half-backed fixes and have exposed short-comings in the ecosystem.

    Perhaps these languages do not work well as they are not designed to run efficiently on mobile devices. Now that we have libraries such as SwiftUI and Jetpack Compose, React Native no longer makes sense to use.

    Now we should also move away from Electron to better alternatives such as Kotlin Multi-Platform or fully native libraries on each platform; because of LLMs.

  • vanillax 22 minutes ago
    [flagged]
  • LazyIDE 1 hour ago
    [flagged]
  • jasonmp85 35 minutes ago
    [dead]
  • roshanabdullah1 58 minutes ago
    the reason what I believe is that, AI can understand react very well. so It can be beneficial for Shopify
  • faangguyindia 59 minutes ago
    React Native is slow.

    Hermes VM doesn't even have JIT.

    If the majority of your app is native code and only a few places are stitched together via JS code that runs in the Hermes VM, then React Native is suitable for you.

    Look at V8 vs. Hermes performance.

    We use Flutter; we rarely need to write native code. We have three apps: Symbiote workout app, CalorieCodex, an AI calorie tracker app, and MacroCodex with 17,000+ users, all of them completely free